by Fred 'Heinkill' Williams, Updated by James Halliday
For fans of WWII combat flight simulation, two new projects dominate the news: DCS WWII and Battle of Stalingrad (BoS).
In this article we will take a look at each of them in turn, review what they have promised, vs what they currently offer, and then look at the future roadmap to gold release.
(Not into reading: see a video comparing the sims here: http://youtu.be/92enGfvJ8aU )
IL2 Battle of Stalingrad (BoS)
In August 2012 I received an anonymous post on this blog claiming to be a leaked press release about a new collaboration between 1C Softclub and software developer BUKA, to develop a new sim called IL2 Battle of Stalingrad.
This was news, because up until that point, the team of 1C Maddox had been working on the new sequel, based on the troubled Cliffs of Dover and it had been titled 'Battle of Moscow', not 'Battle of Stalingrad'.
A leaked screenshot of a Bf109f clearly showed the Volga river area in autumn, not Moscow, lending strength to the rumour that a new Stalingrad sim was on the way.
A 1C community spokesperson denied the press release was authentic, but did not deny the project described in the press release was in fact a reality. Shortly afterward, the 1C Maddox team fell apart, Oleg Maddox left the team, 1C closed down the project and Battle for Moscow/Stalingrad was officially dead.
Fast forward to December 2012 and 1C makes an announcement almost identical to this press release, except the partner in the project has changed from BUKA to 777 Studios, the makers of the Rise of Flight sim.
All very intriguing.
The good news for WWII combat sim fans is that this time, it turned out to be true!
777 and Rise of Flight had proven to be a very competent and professional crew who had generated a strong following for their WWI sim title, using a new 'pay for add-ons' model which some players hate, and some love.
In the eventual final iteration of this model, the basic Rise of Flight game is free to play, and includes a limited planeset and scripted campaigns. Then, if you want to add new aircraft, modifications or maps, you buy these individually. Although free to play, if you were to buy all the add-ons to Rise of Flight, you would of course be able to spend hundreds of dollars. As a commercial model, it kept the Rise of Flight platform alive, and growing with new content, for several years.
So what do we know about Battle for Stalingrad?
Well, actually, quite a lot. The 777 Studios are well advanced with the project, they have launched their open alpha testing platform as promised, are adding new content to it almost weekly, and they have been issuing regular updates to the community.
This is a project that does not overpromise, communicates with its fanbase, and generally meets milestones along the way.
The BoS alpha testing platform
For 95 USD you can start playing the alpha version of the game already.
This cost gets you a download code which gives you a launcher/updater module, and limited access to whatever game content has been so far unlocked (usually between Friday and Monday).
As a 'founder' member you have also been promised unique skins, and free downloads of aircraft that will otherwise be sold as paid add-ons, such as the FW190.
The way the game alpha version works at the moment is that you have a basic launcher and updater interface that checks you have the latest version of the game (it is updated with new features almost weekly), links you to news and the help forums, and then launches the game.
The devs collect information in the background about the performance of the game on your PC, to allow them to identify bugs and optimise the code. You can also report bugs on the forums, but you are not an official 'beta tester', what you have access to is only the currently playable features, which so far have been largely released bug free, though with optimisation still needed.
The big news of October has been that the developers decided, for reasons obvious to no one, to create a WT like tech tree with unlocks for weapons, bombs, armour and skins which you earn with Experience Points (XP) BUT YOU HAVE TO PLAY THE SINGLE PLAYER GAME TO UNLOCK THEM; BEFORE YOU CAN USE THEM IN MULTIPLAYER.
Dummest. Idea. Ever.
Needless to say if you are a WT fan, you love playing online against humans, so the idea you are forced to play single player first against dumb bots, to unlock the weapons and mods for your aircraft so you can use it online, is enough of a turnoff to stop people (like me) buying the game - completely.
As of Oct 2014 the game was 90% complete, in its pre-release state with all features locked, awaiting release in November 2014.
So what is it like?!
For a full review of the pre-release version, go HERE
But the conclusion is simple:
Don't buy it yet. For what you get, it is too expensive. There will be a free demo sooner or later – wait and try that.
It has already been announced that the demo version will come with two planes (the Lagg3 and Bf109F4). If it is like the other title from these guys, Rise of Flight, these might come with some weapon mods and skins unlocked, but mostly not, so you’ll have to earn the XP or buy them.
If you can't wait, you have two options.
Burn 50 bucks now, and get bored to the tits playing the BoS single player game to unlock the weapons you need to play multiplayer in your new death machines.
Spend 20 bucks (or 10 when it is on sale, which it frequently is) buying and playing Cliffs of Dover, which is what I prefer to do. And HERE is why I recommend that.
The project is definitely its own thing, ran by Ilya, for which he primarily is responsible. He designed it on paper, licensed the code and hired and managed team members. However, Eagle Dynamics is doing a lot more than just handing over the code. First of all, many ED employees are huge WWII aviation fans, so they try to get involved even if that means doing something on their own time. Secondly, the current DCS engine could use a few new WWII-era features, and part of the deal means that ED will work to develop those as part of the engine hand-over process.
In September 2013 a Kickstarter (crowd funding) fund raising scheme was launched, with the aim of supplementing the project budget to allow extra content to be added, and free the developers from the restrictions (read 'deadlines') enforced by commercial software publishers.
DavidRed 1 day ago
hey Luthier!
where is the dialog YOU PROMISED between devs and backers?
where are the backers only dev updates YOU PROMISED?
where are the weekly skype backer-dev sessions YOU PROMISED as a reward?
where are the P51 keys YOU PROMISED to be handed out in september 2013?
where is the EDGE map dev kit YOU PROMISED?
where is the fw190 YOU PROMISED to be released in february?
where is the alpha version of DCS WWII YOU PROMISED to be released in february?
where is the communication and interaction YOU PROMISED?
WHERE THE F**K ARE YOU?
IL2 BoS seems to have a clear roadmap to launch, is hitting its milestones successfully and keeping its players happy.
For fans of WWII combat flight simulation, two new projects dominate the news: DCS WWII and Battle of Stalingrad (BoS).
In this article we will take a look at each of them in turn, review what they have promised, vs what they currently offer, and then look at the future roadmap to gold release.
(Not into reading: see a video comparing the sims here: http://youtu.be/92enGfvJ8aU )
IL2 Battle of Stalingrad (BoS)
In August 2012 I received an anonymous post on this blog claiming to be a leaked press release about a new collaboration between 1C Softclub and software developer BUKA, to develop a new sim called IL2 Battle of Stalingrad.
This was news, because up until that point, the team of 1C Maddox had been working on the new sequel, based on the troubled Cliffs of Dover and it had been titled 'Battle of Moscow', not 'Battle of Stalingrad'.
A leaked screenshot of a Bf109f clearly showed the Volga river area in autumn, not Moscow, lending strength to the rumour that a new Stalingrad sim was on the way.
A 1C community spokesperson denied the press release was authentic, but did not deny the project described in the press release was in fact a reality. Shortly afterward, the 1C Maddox team fell apart, Oleg Maddox left the team, 1C closed down the project and Battle for Moscow/Stalingrad was officially dead.
Fast forward to December 2012 and 1C makes an announcement almost identical to this press release, except the partner in the project has changed from BUKA to 777 Studios, the makers of the Rise of Flight sim.
All very intriguing.
The good news for WWII combat sim fans is that this time, it turned out to be true!
777 and Rise of Flight had proven to be a very competent and professional crew who had generated a strong following for their WWI sim title, using a new 'pay for add-ons' model which some players hate, and some love.
In the eventual final iteration of this model, the basic Rise of Flight game is free to play, and includes a limited planeset and scripted campaigns. Then, if you want to add new aircraft, modifications or maps, you buy these individually. Although free to play, if you were to buy all the add-ons to Rise of Flight, you would of course be able to spend hundreds of dollars. As a commercial model, it kept the Rise of Flight platform alive, and growing with new content, for several years.
So what do we know about Battle for Stalingrad?
Well, actually, quite a lot. The 777 Studios are well advanced with the project, they have launched their open alpha testing platform as promised, are adding new content to it almost weekly, and they have been issuing regular updates to the community.
This is a project that does not overpromise, communicates with its fanbase, and generally meets milestones along the way.
The BoS alpha testing platform
For 95 USD you can start playing the alpha version of the game already.
This cost gets you a download code which gives you a launcher/updater module, and limited access to whatever game content has been so far unlocked (usually between Friday and Monday).
As a 'founder' member you have also been promised unique skins, and free downloads of aircraft that will otherwise be sold as paid add-ons, such as the FW190.
The way the game alpha version works at the moment is that you have a basic launcher and updater interface that checks you have the latest version of the game (it is updated with new features almost weekly), links you to news and the help forums, and then launches the game.
The devs collect information in the background about the performance of the game on your PC, to allow them to identify bugs and optimise the code. You can also report bugs on the forums, but you are not an official 'beta tester', what you have access to is only the currently playable features, which so far have been largely released bug free, though with optimisation still needed.
The big news of October has been that the developers decided, for reasons obvious to no one, to create a WT like tech tree with unlocks for weapons, bombs, armour and skins which you earn with Experience Points (XP) BUT YOU HAVE TO PLAY THE SINGLE PLAYER GAME TO UNLOCK THEM; BEFORE YOU CAN USE THEM IN MULTIPLAYER.
Dummest. Idea. Ever.
Needless to say if you are a WT fan, you love playing online against humans, so the idea you are forced to play single player first against dumb bots, to unlock the weapons and mods for your aircraft so you can use it online, is enough of a turnoff to stop people (like me) buying the game - completely.
As of Oct 2014 the game was 90% complete, in its pre-release state with all features locked, awaiting release in November 2014.
So what is it like?!
For a full review of the pre-release version, go HERE
But the conclusion is simple:
Don't buy it yet. For what you get, it is too expensive. There will be a free demo sooner or later – wait and try that.
It has already been announced that the demo version will come with two planes (the Lagg3 and Bf109F4). If it is like the other title from these guys, Rise of Flight, these might come with some weapon mods and skins unlocked, but mostly not, so you’ll have to earn the XP or buy them.
If you can't wait, you have two options.
Burn 50 bucks now, and get bored to the tits playing the BoS single player game to unlock the weapons you need to play multiplayer in your new death machines.
Spend 20 bucks (or 10 when it is on sale, which it frequently is) buying and playing Cliffs of Dover, which is what I prefer to do. And HERE is why I recommend that.
So what about DCS WWII?
In Summer 2013 a group called RRG Studios was formed from the remnants of the ill fated Cliffs of Dover project. The founders included IL2 legends Oleg Maddox, and Ilya Shevchenko.
They announced a new WWII combat flight sim title, which would license the DCS World game engine and environment. By building the sim inside the already established DCS World, it was hoped development could be accelerated and many of the teething problems of basic game coding would be already overcome, allowing the project to focus on content development.
The P51D planned for the game is already flying, in DCS World
Maddox said the following about the project, and its links to DCS World/Eagle Dynamics:
The project is definitely its own thing, ran by Ilya, for which he primarily is responsible. He designed it on paper, licensed the code and hired and managed team members. However, Eagle Dynamics is doing a lot more than just handing over the code. First of all, many ED employees are huge WWII aviation fans, so they try to get involved even if that means doing something on their own time. Secondly, the current DCS engine could use a few new WWII-era features, and part of the deal means that ED will work to develop those as part of the engine hand-over process.
In September 2013 a Kickstarter (crowd funding) fund raising scheme was launched, with the aim of supplementing the project budget to allow extra content to be added, and free the developers from the restrictions (read 'deadlines') enforced by commercial software publishers.
Whether the crowd funding project was successful is debatable, but it raised 150,000 USD, which in end will be allocated to creating an additional flyable aircraft which will be available free to backers.
What is the DCS WWII concept?
DCS WWII is an Axis vs Allies sim set in 1944, starting with the Allied invasion of Europe, and moves forward from there. The theatre outlined so far, is Western Europe, Normandy, Holland and France.
Like the DCS World Su25 module, it will also be distributed via a free-to-play model. The full-featured core game with one flyable aircraft will be available as a free download, allowing anyone to check out the game and its features. Additional modules containing new aircraft or new gameplay areas will be available as a separate purchase.
Like the DCS World Su25 module, it will also be distributed via a free-to-play model. The full-featured core game with one flyable aircraft will be available as a free download, allowing anyone to check out the game and its features. Additional modules containing new aircraft or new gameplay areas will be available as a separate purchase.
It is not entirely clear yet which of the planned flyable aircraft will be free to play, and which will need to be purchased. The list of planned flyables includes the P47D, P51D, Bf109K, FW190D and Spitfire Mark IX.
An AI only version of the FW190D is already available in DCS World. It will need a cockpit and systems implemented to be made flyable for DCS WWII.
Campaigns are promised for each of these main aircraft types. Campaign building has never been a strength of the Cliffs of Dover team (they virtually ignored the single player game in that title) but DCS World modern era sim modules ship with some nice campaigns, so it is to be hoped that some expertise is being brought in from that side of the house.
Multiplayer and mission designer will use the established DCS World platform (for better and worse - the DCS mission builder is great, the online play less so. Firing the guns in a P51D vs FW190D online melee in DCS World currently causes FPS stuttering on some PCs.)
Current status
Despite a promising start and a business model which on the surface appears simple - build on the existing DCS World platform by adding new aircraft, maps and content - DCS WWII is in all sorts of trouble.
The project is already missing deadlines, a habit which Shevchenko is (in)famous for.
People who backed the project on Kickstarter were supposed to have received download keys for the DCS P51D. Many complain they have not. And they complain that their complaints are going unanswered, with no active dialog possible with the developers they have backed. Posts on the Kickstarter blog of Ilya Shevchenko go unanswered.
Shevchenko has been posting reasonably regular updates, and some of these include screenshots of work in progress on cockpits and aircraft models.
Bf109K work in progress shot of cockpit
Rudimentary WIP shot of P47 3D model. Earlier it was claimed the P47D was already 'nearly there'. Clearly this later shot shows, it is not.
FW190D cockpit shots were impressive
But backers who kicked in more than 80USD were promised the flyable FW190D in February 2014. It has not been released and there has been no communication about when it will be. Shevchenko has posted a long list of questions on the DCS forums, asking community help with technical information about the FW190D, explaining this lack of information is why the aircraft has been delayed - it gives a good indication of just how far from finished the FW190D is.
Backers were also promised 'Alpha Access' similar to the Battle of Stalingrad alpha access described above, also for February 2014. That has not materialised either and is clearly well behind deadline.
Lately, this is what Shevchenko has been posting on his blog...
...screenshots of the game manuals he has been working on. Personally I have never seen game developers fill development updates with screenshots of manuals just to show that they are working on something.
Backers of the project are getting more and more strident on the Kickstarter blog site, as evidenced by this recent post.
DavidRed 1 day ago
hey Luthier!
where is the dialog YOU PROMISED between devs and backers?
where are the backers only dev updates YOU PROMISED?
where are the weekly skype backer-dev sessions YOU PROMISED as a reward?
where are the P51 keys YOU PROMISED to be handed out in september 2013?
where is the EDGE map dev kit YOU PROMISED?
where is the fw190 YOU PROMISED to be released in february?
where is the alpha version of DCS WWII YOU PROMISED to be released in february?
where is the communication and interaction YOU PROMISED?
WHERE THE F**K ARE YOU?
So it has to be said, DCS WWII is currently looking a little rocky. Backers are worried that the devs have taken their money and disappeared, without delivering what they promised, the latest blog posts from Shevchenko show very little progress at all, and he shows no inclination to enter into a dialogue with those who backed the project.
Conclusion on DCS WWII
It is hard to reach a conclusion, with so little progress shown and the current concerns of backers being the most evident and public face of the project. I guess we can conclude though that some manuals are being written!
Is this project real and viable? The original target date, which no one really should have taken seriously, was for an alpha release in Feb 2014 and full release in Sept 2014. Clearly that is not going to happen.
And the very real question must be whether DCS WWII will be released at all.
In an interview in January 2014 Oleg Maddox said about the project:
We see a clear progression through the theaters over the next few years. We however don’t have a specific plan yet. It’s too early to decide whether the very next one is going to be Russia or Pacific or the Med. We’ll see how the first one goes, and we’ll see what the people most want.
Perhaps he should focus on delivering DCS WWII first!
The future for both sims
IL2 BoS seems to have a clear roadmap to launch, is hitting its milestones successfully and keeping its players happy.
Four aircraft are currently flyable in about 20 missions on 2 maps, and the online play alpha is soon to start.
This sim should therefore hit beta in Spring 2014 (it was scheduled for release at that date, which seems unlikely) and possible GOLD release in the summer or autumn of 2014
DCS WWII is increasingly starting to look like vapourware. DCS WWII is now hitting none of its promised development timelines or deliverables.
The Devs are posting one-way blog updates for the people who poured 150,000 USD into the project, but not responding to the fact that they have delivered little else that they have promised, and the project updates showing work in progress are disappointing to say the least.
Unfortunately for backers, but luckily for those who have not yet invested, this is not a product which you can further invest in, or buy today.
Unlike BoS, there is no 'early access' package for sale (yet), so the only ones who stand to lose, are those who originally backed the Kickstarter project.
And the DCS/Eagle Dynamics team, who lent their brand name to this project.
OVERALL CONCLUSION
Buy BoS Early Access and you will be getting a fun and engaging product at a reasonable price for a fully realised flight sim, with loads of content to come and a likely full release date later in the summer or autumn.
Keep a watching brief on DCSWWII here on this blog. It may make a great comeback and get back on track. But if you see another Kickstarter fund raiser begin, or a promise of an Early Access Package for DCS WWII, be very wary of investing until the project shows that it can actually deliver something.
POSTSCRIPT: JUNE 2014
In this case, we hate to say 'we told you so'. But dammit we did! The DCS WWII project collapsed as we predicted, which makes us very sad.
The lead developer was exited, RRG Studios is involved no more, and now Eagle Dynamics has stepped in and is selling off the family jewels to try to get a little of their investment money back. The first asset they are liquidating to raise a few rubles is the FW190D. They have said they are committed to finishing the WWII project, but history tells us this won't happen.
They have been talking about a new map for DCS WWII for years (Nevada) and it is still just a rumour. The current DCS World Black Sea map has been around, with the occasional refresh, since LOMAC release in 2004 folks! If you really believe they are going to deliver a whole new Western Europe theatre, when they can't even deliver on a little map of Nevada in the space of ten years, then you seriously need to grow some street smarts.
ED is promising that after the releasing the nearly completed FW190D, they will release a 109K, Spit IX, P-47 and then a Normandy map, all by May 2015.
We are calling Chush' sobach'ya (BULLSHIT) on that.
They may just get the Dora and 109K finished (we have at least seen screenshots of them flying in DCS World), because work on them had at least started, and so is logical enough to complete. But you will not see the Spit IX, P-47 and certainly not a Normandy map with WWII AI objects in 2015 at all.
Now, if you want to buy the Dora and 109K and fly them against the P-51, Su-27, A-10 and Huey over the Crimea, good luck to you!
But if you want a new WWII combat sim in 2014-15, your choice is now unfortunately very simple - Battle of Stalingrad.
Or nothing.
POSTSCRIPT: JUNE 2014
In this case, we hate to say 'we told you so'. But dammit we did! The DCS WWII project collapsed as we predicted, which makes us very sad.
The lead developer was exited, RRG Studios is involved no more, and now Eagle Dynamics has stepped in and is selling off the family jewels to try to get a little of their investment money back. The first asset they are liquidating to raise a few rubles is the FW190D. They have said they are committed to finishing the WWII project, but history tells us this won't happen.
They have been talking about a new map for DCS WWII for years (Nevada) and it is still just a rumour. The current DCS World Black Sea map has been around, with the occasional refresh, since LOMAC release in 2004 folks! If you really believe they are going to deliver a whole new Western Europe theatre, when they can't even deliver on a little map of Nevada in the space of ten years, then you seriously need to grow some street smarts.
ED is promising that after the releasing the nearly completed FW190D, they will release a 109K, Spit IX, P-47 and then a Normandy map, all by May 2015.
We are calling Chush' sobach'ya (BULLSHIT) on that.
They may just get the Dora and 109K finished (we have at least seen screenshots of them flying in DCS World), because work on them had at least started, and so is logical enough to complete. But you will not see the Spit IX, P-47 and certainly not a Normandy map with WWII AI objects in 2015 at all.
Now, if you want to buy the Dora and 109K and fly them against the P-51, Su-27, A-10 and Huey over the Crimea, good luck to you!
But if you want a new WWII combat sim in 2014-15, your choice is now unfortunately very simple - Battle of Stalingrad.
Or nothing.
More free passes to Rise of Flight and its absurd FM inconsistencies...and now we have the LagG-3 and 109F-4 with their amazing roll rates. Of all the sites that review flight sims I would not have expected this one to miss such a glaring problem.
ReplyDeleteThe criticisms of DCS WWII are fair.
I guess you missed the comment: "flight models need fine tuning."
DeleteROFL, BoS isn't worth $20 in its current state. FMs are crap, and apparently final.
DeleteArcade crap for $90 lol
BoS is coming along just fine.
DeleteI would not pay $95.00 for any flight Sim . At the moment Cliffs of Dover is doing a fine job.
ReplyDeleteYou joke yes? Cliffs of Dover single player does not work. Even in the teamfusion mod version it is also broken by them. Battle Stalingrad is the only game at the moment which gives what it says for offline players.
DeleteTry the Desastersoft campaigns or Heinkill's excellent redux campaigns in Cliffs of Dover. They work pretty well with the latest TeamFusion Mod. Credit where credit is due, these guys have done a fantastic job with cliffs, a job that Mr Shevchenko and gang should have finished and failed miserably to do so. (looks like DCSWW2 is headed the same way).
DeleteNice write-up Heinkill.
Free passes to RoF? We say nothing about the game itself just its business model. And we criticise its mission builder and the 777 attitude to critique of its products. Hardly a free pass!
ReplyDeleteMy gosh someone who rights fair and balance about Oleg Maddox and Bos and RoF and 777 and DCS without being a fanboi or a hater? I wait for the ED/DCS and 777 crews to come here and spam you with angry 'how dare you' comment.
ReplyDeleteYou blame DCS for being stupid to lend their name to the people who produced IL2? IL2 is best ever flight sim made, no question. So your only point is that Ilya Shevchenko is bad to communicate. This says nothing about the sim itself, which you should reserve yourself to comment on. Anything else is personal attack on Shevchenko. Idiots who paid into Kickstarter get what they deserve, if you ask me. I invested nothing, and expect nothing and one day will be happy to buy this DCS sim.
ReplyDeleteThat just shows that you have no faith in him either! When someone asks for money and promises specifics, that is his word and reputation on the line. Thus far, nothing has materialised. I'm afraid that barring some explaination why, IIya is in fact not living up to his word.
DeleteLOL
DeleteI'm afraid Ilya has proven himself to be an arrogant conman. When I saw him on kickstarter, begging for money after the CloD debacle, I laughed long and hard. I'm amazed so many people fell for his new scam though.
ReplyDeleteSome people have faith and want a good flight Sim after the let down of Cliffs of Dover , But most of us don't know the full story behind what happened there .
DeleteIf you buy a season ticket for football i would say the same thing its a waste of money.
I have the founder edition of BOS and it's the BEST $95 I EVER spent on gaming software.
ReplyDelete+1 best sim dollar I spent in years!
DeleteThe 95 dollars I spent on BOS is the best money I've ever spent on a sim, and I've been playing sims since the legendary Jane franchise.
ReplyDeleteYou have got to be either completely ignorant or stupid to fall into the Maddox trap again, and I'll bet they're counting on that to make their cash-in again.
Cliffs of dover and DCS are for moron simmers.
What a clown, you insulted alot of people that own both and play both.Maybe you should think before you make ignorant and stupid comments.Plenty wrong with bos too no sim is with out sin.
DeleteWar Thunder "pilot" detected
DeleteShould reread my post bit of of a problem with comprehension ?
DeleteSorry but you're wrong. Cliffs is at the moment, the best sim out there for MP and that's thanks to TF's efforts. I own all three and have hopes for DSC and BoS too. BoS is coming along as expected and I hope in the end will be as great as Cliffs has now become.
DeleteI think DCS ww2 is being developed at the wrong time. I did back it on kickstarter, however with the delay of the new graphics engine EDGE, It seems to be holding third part development up. I wouldn't solely blame ilya for DCSWW2 delays. Development for an engine that is being reworked is going to get delayed. Eagle dynamics did say that EDGE was going to be released late last year, that didn't happen. Ilyas optimistic predictions may well have been based on the release of EDGE. I play both sims. I think to call people who play CLoD and DCS morons is a bit over the top fanboyism.
ReplyDeleteI feel sorry for RRG. They thought DCS code would be a shortcut to easy release but it is a nightmare. There is a reason ED did not do this idea themselves. It will not be released in 2014 I promise. That does not excuse Shevchenko from poor communication.
DeleteI agree on the communication but if delays are due to EDGE I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be able to communicate the real reasons due to Eagle Dynamics contracts and such. The guys in a no win situation and maybe it was the wrong time to try and develop
DeleteI'm a backer of both BoS and DCS WWII.
ReplyDeleteBoS has definitely been worth it already. I've been having a blast in the Early Access so far, especially now that it's open 24/7 with MP and a QMB. I'm not going to lie, it has some issues. Unit count in MP being the main thing as well as it needing some FM/DM tweaking as you mentioned, but nothing too game-breaking and nothing that can't be fixed by launch. For only being 45% or so complete, I think it's coming along nicely and I've been having a great time flying it.
I'm not too worried about DCS WWII, even though I'm well aware of the history associated with the RRG team. The way I see it is: I'm only $50 invested in it and will eventually get 6 DCS-level legendary WW2 aircraft out of it. If it does manage to fail, oh well... just $50, I've wasted much more in the past on other investments. I do have high hopes, I'm not going to worry about their timeline for development right now. As far as I'm concerned, I'd prefer they take their time and ensure that the game is feature complete and working and launch. No need to rush, that's what got the 1C Maddox team into trouble with CLoD, being rushed by both the community and UBI.
I have both BoS Early Access and the new update to the TF mod in CLoD to keep me occupied in the mean time. I fully expect to be flying the release version of BoS before DCS WWII.
@article author: Don't forget to add the Me262 to the list of flyables for DCS WWII! I know having that aircraft in the DCS environment is a wet dream for many many simmers, myself included.
Well said Jack. I'm in the same boat as you are but put a little more into the kickstarter. Your post could be mine and reflects my feelings about it. Heck I spend more at a nice restaurant on a bottle if wine! This "hobby" of ours is pretty cheap IMO and I have MFG Crosswinds and a Warthog set up. Imagine if we played golf! ;-)
DeleteI think the review is quite fair regarding BoS. My only comment is I think the description of the moderation environment in their forums is a bit off. Yes they do lock posts and there is more "coaching" about some comments than you see in some other forums. But it is almost always about tone, not content. There are plenty of criticisms in the boards. The difference is between those comments that are intended to be constructive feedback vs, those that are either misinformed or simply trolling. There is a difference and the later are the ones that get the scrutiny. Not a bad thing, IMO.
ReplyDeleteJason is an egomaniac who tolerates no criticism of his projects. I have stopped posting at 777 forums for being warned too many times or having my posts disappear with no explanation. I fully support the OP on this comment.
DeleteAnd the above would be a typical example of the kinds of things likely to get moderated over there. Nothing constructive, just an opinion that is actually about a person, not the product. I've seen plenty of criticism in both the BoS and the RoF forums. It is completely false that he doesn't tolerate criticism of his projects. So there you go: nothing constructive and actual falsehoods asserted as fact. If that was your habit, I can see why you ran into trouble with them.
DeleteDCS's terrain is a joke. It looks like something a retard did with a crayon.
ReplyDeleteThat's why they are making a whole new graphics engine for it....
DeleteIn the meantime, if you aren't using mods to improve the current version of DCS, you are doing it wrong...
Not being a "Fanboy" "Spammer" or "Hater" to all each his own. If 777 was not involved I would have stayed away from it.
ReplyDeleteSince this article BOS has come a long way 24/7 online MP a beautiful QMB and anther plane.
Every week a new update with something new, something corrected and communication.
I have the founder edition and found the progress satisfactory to say the least if not just bad ass so far.
The price may seem steep but I've spent more on less so I'm happy with what is happening with development and having loads of fun.
unlike eagle dynamics or maddox, 777 actually delivers and continues to provide new original content years after release. They also had the sense to future proof their engine with quad core support, unlike some engines still running 1 core for everything and a second pipeline on the 2nd core for sound. it's issues like that that reveal eagle dynamics' lack of actual interest in delivering the best sim experience.
ReplyDeleteOh, the best FM and DM in BoS : )
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A0qumyf3bk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKE-qeEO8EM#t=3
Welcome to WarThunder ; )
Didn't you read the article?
DeleteCLASSIC! The blog posts a positive review of BoS and one small line about its dumb policy oflocking threads. So how does 777 react? THEY LOCK THE THREAD! What fucking idiots.
ReplyDeleteIts the 777 way.Thanks for the money, now **** off ;)
DeleteIt was locked for trolling, not for criticism of the sim or the development progress. Note that neither of those were referenced in the thread, yet it was locked. This is why they get locked: for just stirring the pot with no desire or attempt to provide constructive feedback.
DeleteAnd that is the whole problem, 777 definition of trolling is 'any criticism of our projects which we don't think is fair'...that isn't trolling, it is just a debate. You can agree or disagree but when you stifle debate that hasn't descended into some sort of personal abuse or argument, that is just censorship, and it drives pretty normal people like me away from your community. We enjoy debate, we enjoy the free exchange of views, we respect that people have different opinions and may not agree with us - 777 does not.
DeleteI love this blog! Here you can say what you think. I agree that Bo$ is a great game already I am playing it every weekend. But not perfect - it has very bad multiplay right now but it is just alpha level. I love Cliffs o D, but Team Fusion annoys me a bit they have a quite amateur approach and fix many things but break many things too - and I put $20, not much, to DCSWWII and I wish I had not. Does that make me a TROLL? Then I am a TROLL! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
DeleteIts so funny, that the guys criticizing the BoS FM (rollrate of planes, they never flew) praise CloD. Scripted stupid spins, missing prop effects etc etc. Those CloD planes don´t have a fraction of the reel feeling of RoF or BoS. And CloD AI planes are a joke - BoS AI flies the real FM, not drones without FM. The 50 bucks for CloD have been out of the window as my 50 bucks for DCS WW2 have been thrown away. I don´t regret a cent invested into RoF and BoS
ReplyDeleteAnd yet the money I spent on Cliffs has been repaid over and over.
ReplyDeleteHorses for courses. Personally I think both are a crock of shit and run by conmen. I'll stick with the bird in the hand.
Hey Anonymous, I'm Anonymous too.
DeleteOr am I just talking to myself ?
ATAG banned the author of this one: (CloD FM worse than WT)
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toIvr0fV7cE
And rightfully they did.
DeleteThat comparision was porked!
Just watch that in CoD the engine was run up to full power before releasing the brakes, then with a already stabilizing airstream the 109 still drove a wide circle before lifting off.
In BoS the fanboi added power slowly without using the brakes, increasing the maybe overdone effect.
I think ATAG has done a fantastic job optimising graphics and framerates for Cliffs of Dover, multiplayer code, and adding new variants of existing aircraft + maps. If they stuck to that, it would be fine, but they have a tendency to meddle too much with code they don't understand so every patch they make, fixes some things and breaks others. In the first mod, they broke the code that controlled the AI aircraft, so they could not take off. In the second patch they broke the code that controls AI flight so the AI crashed all the time. In this latest patch, they have introduced major changes to ground handling that many players hate, and broken the code that determines damage effects on pilots, so pilot kills are now much too frequent. They mean well and do some great work, but they should stop including mods in their updates to code that is not fully understood. Team Fusion - stick to new maps, objects and graphics!! On Battle of Stalingrad, I have bought early access and I love it. The launcher and updater work great, every week there is new content and it has some bugs, but I expect that. The big test will come when they start adding objects and water animation etc to the landscape. At the moment the landscape is bare and white, with hardly any objects and low detail for the buildings, and no doubt this is to help with frame rates. I am very afraid what will happen to FPS when the map is updated with more objects, more detailed buildings, and animated water and traffic etc. If Rise of Flight is any indicator, FPS and stuttering when special effects are on screen, will be a potential issue. I hope not!! Finally I am so glad I did not give any money for DCS WWII. It looks like it is going to be very much delayed, if it ever comes. I too am starting to doubt it.
ReplyDelete"DCS WWII is increasingly starting to look like vapourware. DCS WWII is now hitting none of its promised development timelines or deliverables."
ReplyDeleteI think this is only partly true. As long as the devs keep posting updates, the project seems alive. Now they have created a website for backers to claim their rewards (if they are ever released). So for now it seems it is more than vaporware. It has to deliver something very soon though, which it is true it has not. No FW190, no Alpha Access and also no news of when these will actually be available. I believe the FW190 problem lies with DCS/ED though, because it is them who has promised it and is responsible for it, so it is not fair to blame Chevchenko for that - but if people think that, then he should just explain it and put the blame to ED/DCS where it belongs. With no FW190 and no landscape engine, plus no flyable aircraft (last update) if there is going to be an alpha version like Battle of Stalingrad, it will be a long time to come. At least Battleof stalingrad has shown the way for how it should be done. Chevchenko should just follow the same plan.
I have bought a early axis for battle of stalingrad and i am not using it. it is too boring to me. i am not unhappy to give the money, but i am not interested to be beta tester after all.
ReplyDeletetoo much features is not there - the maps is boring, there is not many aircrafts possible in each mission, online for me is laggy and there is warping, important controls as trim is not implement yet...yes, it is alpha product. i will wait until beta or maybe later.
in the meantime is world of warplanes. i love this game, full real, big air battles and many choice of aircrafts and upgrades. sim or game? i don't mind, it is good fun and that is what i buy.
Now he is showing screenshots of the same instrument screenshots he showed before, and it is supposed an update to be.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts
This is the same shots as the update he showed some month ago
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts/741085
This is not serious project.
I love a good flight sim and IL-2 has been the best I've played... MS flight was no good and DCS seems to me to be a dated background used to plug in decent modles but the terrain sux and lack of anything other than flying for the hell of it makes it booooring to me. Unless of course you just want MP. I have the huey on DCS world and again while the huey is great the rest is dated. CLoD was just more of the same when I was expecting a major update from old il2. I have played every flight sim out and I have high hopes for il-2 BoS. My real wish is for someone to make a good vietnam huey game! They did one that sucked so bad I can't remember the name now..whirlwind over vietnam or some crap. That was the worse flight sim yet.
ReplyDeleteNo, he was right! DCS = vapourware. Poif and Ilya goes, Kickstarter money is gone, so is this project. Now ED tries to make a little money selling Dora and no map! Joke. Good luck to fly Dora against A10s, in Black Sea theatre.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=293991
ReplyDeleteIt's a WW2 flight combat simulator being made by a Russian company (1C) in conjunction with a US distributor (777 Studios). They call it a 'sim' but it's not a sim, it's a game. One in which they have bent certain parameters so as to hugely favour the Russian aircraft and nerf the German ones.
ReplyDeleteIn order to hide their chicanery they have been hiding negative posts in an access-only forum (only purchasers of the alpha version can get in there, at £50/$100 a pop), deleting threads and posts and harassing, bullying and threatening posters via PM, along with 30-day bans.
Then they put the game on Steam. And have now continued their behaviour there; locking posts and banning Steam Account holders from that forum despite them breaking no rules.
source: http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=293991
The game is claimed to be 75% done but what i see is that there too much to do. In my opinion the ac's fly much like the biplanes in RoF. The controls are wobling a lot, any minor input in the jostick cause a strong reaction. Go and try to do strafing runs in BoS.
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ReplyDelete